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 Post subject: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Hi all,

Can anyone assist with a scan of the layout of a full sheet of G.B. QV Jubilee issues?
We have a pane (illustrated) of the 4½d value but have so little of the Victorian issues
that it is not sensible to buy a specialised catalogue to answer one question.

We need to know how many panes make up a full sheet.

I have 'googled' trying to use a sensible 'question' and though I found some interesting sites
none answered the query.

Any help gratefully received.

Ron


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Can't help with a picture, but a full sheet was 240 stamps, i.e. 12 panes of 20.


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:59 pm 
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Hello again mozzerb
Many thanks for the swift response - exactly what we needed to know.
Great
Regards
Ron.


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:05 pm 
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QV is not my major interest, but my eye was caught by this query and the response. I am not in any wise criticising or correcting the previous suggestion, but the pane shown is five stamps across by four deep (20 stamps), and it was stated that the full sheet was, as usual in pre-decimal stamps, 240 stamps, in this case twelve panes of twenty stamps per pane.

Now, as I understand it, the usual practice was for a counter sheet to be 12 stamps across, so that each row had a value of a certain number of shillings (e.g. a row of twelve 3d stamps had a value of 3/-). This was to assist the counter clerks in their daily balance calculations, I believe.

Try as I may, I cannot work out how this was achieved with the layout suggested. Please can someone put me out of my misery before I have to go and sit in a dark corner, a blanket over my head, and whimper quietly to myself.

Many thanks

Tony


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Looks like I gave a flip answer based on the standard sheet sizes for surface printed that was wrong in this case -- now you remind me, I think I remember Iain Stevenson (when he gave a display on this stamp) saying that the sheet size was larger than usual, and checking Wright & Creeke (see the downloads section of the site) they say:
Quote:
The entire plate contains eighty stamps, in four panes, arranged two and two each, measuring 94mm vertically by 120mm horizontally and containing twenty stamps in four horizontal rows of five: the vertical space between the panes is 48mm in depth, and the horizontal 43mm in width. Each pane constitutes a Post-office sheet of the facial value of seven shillings and sixpence.

IIRC Iain said the full sheet was 320, so that would mean a printing sheet of four of the above sheets, presumably split down (for larger Post Offices?) into sheets of 80?


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:18 pm 
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Thanks for that, Mozzerb.

Sorry to belabour the point, but does that mean that a 'Post Office' sheet of 80 stamps (according to Wright and Creake - thanks for the link, I had not noticed it before - the standard size for the Jubilee issue) of the 4 1/2 d value would be worth 30/- (i.e. £1/10/-) ? If so, that would make sense.

In the early seventies, when the Post Office had the doubtful benefit of my services, each counter clerk kept their stock in a loose leaf binder-type book - a sheet of 240 stamps, folded into quarters, would fit neatly within this. Does anyone happen to know how the Victorian counter clerks stored their stock, please ?

Tony


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:01 am 
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As far as I can gather from Wiseman (DLRY2, pp. 351–362) and the TPM (was BPMA), the 4½d was printed 320-set from 160-set head plates (combined with eight 20-set duty plates). This resulted in left and right sheets of 160 each. But I can find no mention of the size of PO counter sheets. Akerman (GBJ 8(5)67, Sept. 1970) described PO sheets of 80, but offered no explanation as to how he knew this.

On the other hand (as Maurice explained), Wright & Creeke (1899), writing just a few years after the stamps were issued, stated that each plate contained 80 stamps in four panes of twenty; and that each pane constituted a PO sheet of 20 with a 'facial' value of 7s 6d. (I believe W&C were mistaken on the size of the plate, but could be correct on the size of the sheet.)

Oliver & Vallancey (1923) stated simply that 'The sheet consisted of 80 stamps in four panes of 20'.

There are two registration sheets of the 4½d in The Postal Museum: one originally of 80 stamps overprinted 'GOVT PARCELS' (with eight stamps removed) and one originally of 160: Head Plate 1, Duty Plates 1–8 (with 28 stamps removed).

So, no definitive answer. I think what we need is an official mention of the PO counter sheet size, for example in a PO Notice to the Public or in a Circular to Postmasters. However, earlier writers commented on the lack of an announcement of the issue of this stamp, so such an official mention might be difficult to find (or not exist).


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Further to the 4 1/2d which I do not doubt the above, not all Jubilees were printed in this format. SG 16th reports (page 255) that the 320 set sheet was for 4d, 4 1/2d, 9d and 10d. I can confirm the panes are 4x5=20 for the 4d.

However the 2d value is different. These were printed 240 set and issued 120 set (=10 rows x 12). From 1890 increased to 480 set printing (Left and Right) but still 120 set issue (Wiseman DLR Years, page 314).


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 Post subject: Re: Victoria Jubilee issue layout
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:18 pm 
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Thanks, Phil,

That's straightened that out.

Tony


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