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 Post subject: NVI values
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:38 pm 
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I was wondering if you could include an overview of the actual monetary values of the various NVI stamps, 1st, 2nd of course but also 1st large, postcard worldwide etc., with the timings. It would fit in well with the postal rates section. I have a piece with a gold 1st class stamp and a gold 1L Horizon label for 74p from 14/03/11. I presume someone had already stuck the 1st class stamp on the envelope, taken it to the post office to be told it was too big and needed extra, so got a (perforated) Horizon label - late use at Harrow. Nice thing about it is that the stamp and the label are cancelled with a circular real postmark.


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:42 pm 
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Hi Jim - would that not just be the same as the current rate shown on the NVI stamp? So in the case of your piece, the table shows a normal 1st class stamp would have been worth 41p on that date.

That makes £1.15 with the Horizon label though which wasn't a large letter rate at the time -- I guess there must have been another stamp or stamps on the letter originally then? What does the Horizon label say the weight was?

(I'm told that counter staff are supposed to hand cancel stamps on letters when you present them with insufficient payment and they need to make up the amount with a Horizon label, and so that's a way to get nicely cancelled stamps. I must admit I've never had the nerve to insist on it.)


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:14 pm 
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Regarding the above: I've just realised that 74p was the Recorded Delivery fee at the time. So could that be the explanation?


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Hi Maurice
thanks your inputs. Unfortunately the Horizon labels only have weights on in the newest versions with the QR codes. You mention the "table" I was asking about. Is it on the site anywhere (NVI absolute values since launch). Probably one of the best investments in modern GN stamps were the original NVI stamps which ave over doubled in monetary value since.

Recorded Delivery would not really fit the bill. Surprisingly enough there has never been a specific Horizon for Recorded Delivery - something the Post Office has not thought of yet! It must be a large first class letter otherwise the 1L would be wrong. Unfortunately as it is only a piece maybe the recipient just got rid of the rest. We will never know.

cheers
James


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:46 pm 
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jimusedcontrols wrote:
You mention the "table" I was asking about. Is it on the site anywhere (NVI absolute values since launch).

By "table" I was thinking of the rates tables -- i.e. a 1st class NVI was worth whatever they say the rate was at the time, so a list of NVI values would be basically a truncated version of that. Worth thinking about though -- is there a quick reference list of what types of NVI have been issued, or is it a trawl-through the catalogue?

Offhand these are the ones I can think of:

1st
1st large
2nd
2nd large
Recorded Delivery
Recorded Delivery large
Special Delivery 100g
Special Delivery 500g
Airmail postcard
"E" rate (was that Europe? it's been a while!)

What am I missing?

jimusedcontrols wrote:
Recorded Delivery would not really fit the bill. Surprisingly enough there has never been a specific Horizon for Recorded Delivery - something the Post Office has not thought of yet! It must be a large first class letter otherwise the 1L would be wrong.

I wouldn't be entirely confident that a clerk would always select the correct service on the machine, mind you, especially if it was a non-standard value like a RD fee. I'm not sure exactly how they work (should pay more attention really), but wouldn't they have to type a 74p value in? If so, and there was some software limit to stop you typing in an "impossible" value that was too high or low, then using the "1L" setting might even be necessary to get that value?


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:32 am 
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thanks but not really sure how they process Horizons. Must go to a post office next time I am in England and have a look!

Was there actually a NVI airmail postcard stamp? The ones I have (booklets) have denominated stamps.

There are certainly the following extra rates

euro up to 20g / 60g / 100g
worldwide up to 10g / 20g / 40g / 60g
1st / 2nd normal and L up to 100g

I presume the NVI issued before the increase in threshhold weights from 60g to 100g in 2006 are now worth the value of 100g.

ATB
James


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:05 pm 
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jimusedcontrols wrote:
thanks but not really sure how they process Horizons. Must go to a post office next time I am in England and have a look!

Was there actually a NVI airmail postcard stamp? The ones I have (booklets) have denominated stamps.

There are certainly the following extra rates

euro up to 20g / 60g / 100g
worldwide up to 10g / 20g / 40g / 60g
1st / 2nd normal and L up to 100g

I presume the NVI issued before the increase in threshhold weights from 60g to 100g in 2006 are now worth the value of 100g.

ATB
James

Hm ... not sure! I think I have a postcard with a NVI postcard stamp, but I'd have to look. As for the other questions, this sounds like something that could profitably be raised in the Newsletter perhaps?


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:00 pm 
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correct there was at least one series declared as worldwide postcard presumably the same as up to 10g


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Can you post a scan of the piece in question? I probably can't get anything written up in time for the next Newsletter, but it's worth asking the question in the one after that to see if anyone knows how the Horizon machines are programmed (using this as illiustration).


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:02 am 
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sorry I should have added it at the beginning
Abb18.jpg
(889.74 KiB)


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Ah, that puts a slightly different spin on it -- that's not a counter handstamp, it's a rubber datestamp used in the sorting office (in which case it makes a nice change for it to be cancelled at all, at least with anything other than a biro!).

Don't think that affects the rate question though.


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:14 pm 
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a shame it is no longer on the original cover though


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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:52 am 
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Addendum: I remembered that George King's list of Horizon label codes was in Newsletter 355 recently -- here it is:

horizon-labels.jpg


So "1L" refers just to Letter not Large Letter, which makes it very likely that the 74p label was in fact for the Recorded Delivery fee, added when the sender took it to the counter?

(And despite all those codes, some of them quite obscure -- the Post Office couldn't come up with one for Recorded Delivery? :lol:)

I also happened to stumble across the card with the airmail postcard NVI while looking for something completely different, so a scan's attached for the record.


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airmail-postcard-stamp.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: NVI values
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:48 am 
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of course 1LL was first large letter. Should have seen that myself. Your explanation could fit, shame the orange RD label is missing. I enjoyed Ian' comments in the Newsletter about George's display. I think there are some 50 different "indicators", most of them also in Welsh and since late 2011 with 4, 5 or sometimes 6 as VAT coding for exempt, zero-rated or standard!


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