No interest no message

Did anyone notice?

Dear robinT,

I'm interested in Channel Island stamps, and the use of regular British (English?) stamps used on the islands, particularly KEVIII and KGVI. But I cannot find the message you seem to refer to. Or do you mean the bibful about competitions? That is certainly provocative but I'm not sure what you're proposing.

Please send the CI message again.

Cheers, Robinr

There was no message and you are the first to query it!!!!

EVIII stamps on FDC cancelled with Guernsey or Jersey cancels are quite common.

GVI are not common, but mainly were used on postcards from the islands. FDC are common but higher values are not. Many Commem stamps exist on cover from this era

Both, of course represent extensions of GB postal history ie. GB used in.
Our stamps have always been described as British although the Regional stamps and the independence issues from the three Crown Dependencies are invariably been quoted as Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc.

If you want to collect scarce stamps from Britain used in CI try Machins!

Bibful? Its just been described as a rant!!!

My aim - to raise the awareness of CI stamps from 1969 on - they ARE British

RobinT

Dear RobinT,

Well it WAS a rant! But who cares? It was fun and does seem to have provoked some exchanges - which obviously was your intent.

My interest in Channel Islands stamps stems from the KGVI covers I managed to collect in the past, and which I'm now re-discovering. I have a nice piece with a KGVI cancelled by a swastika, but never anything on cover - leaving me with the suspicion that it is contrived and not real.

But it has prompted me to want to know how the postal service there worked during the German occupation. I assume there was post. Was it all converted to german postage stamps overnight? Did all the covers end up in the albums of German collectors?

I suppose there is a book that tells the whole story, with all the critical dates, and so on. If so, can you give me details?

Also, I find that I picked up bits of gossip about a couple of dodgy post offices that cancelled to favour, or literally fiddled the dates and so on, bisects, etc... Is there a nice single-source of info?

Cheers, RobinR

ps. Machins? I gave up on Elizabeth when the UK went decimal. I simply could not afford to keep up with the myriad variants of gum, paper, and so on. R.

Hi fellow Robin

Just so!

Your request regarding info on the second world war functioning of the PO in the islands can be best answered at length by others.

However a potted answer is that the Germans took over the existing system and allowed it to continue. The biggest problem was not with the system but the materials used by it.

Stamps(supplied by GB) were not available and all paper was in short supply - esp. in Guernsey.
Locally produced stamps were authorised and a special display of Occupation items is to be made to the members of the Royal later this month.
Over printed stamps were used for a very short time, they are extremely rare and a huge number of forgeries exist.
Bisected GB stamps were used from collectors and dealers stocks - again many fabricated items are available.
many cancellations were with damaged cancellors, but again wholesale mis usage of these was prevalent just after the end of the war
The germans had their own military postal service.
some French stamps were used and incoming mail from France was cancelled on the Islands

So you get GB, GB bisected, locally produced issues, German and French stamps used in the islands during the period.

There are quite a few Germans in the CISS and they take almost as much interest in the postal history of that time as we do.

Hi RobinT,

Thanks for the response; you have filled out my tentative understanding nicely - but of course set the scene for more enquiries! I found references in my old notes last night suggesting a real state of caveat emptor when it comes to CI usage. I'd guess there must be a good living in just analyzing genuine v fake.

Whilst I have several nice GVI covers, my primary concern right now is the 1937 coronation stamp, and I have a few covers of that from the CI.

I take the implied hint in your message and will look into the CISS and hope to find somebody there who is willing to help with GVI covers from the Islands.

Cheers, and all the best, Robin R

I placed this thread in May 2009 with absolutely no reponse from either this or the exhibits of Channel Islands stamps.

Ce la vie!

However I pursued my lonely path - well it appears lonely, but you try tp but a decent piece of material!!!!!
All these secretive collectors

Stamp collectors -other than box tickers -- so should so called Postal Historians - that the days of collecting stamps are numbered.

The research I have done, in trying to find out how, where and why, the Channel Islands stamps ever got issued has thrown up some devatating facts.

The Labour Party led by Attlee decided to let the Post Office make itself into a Corporation, but retain a controlling share.
This allowed the PO - which was already losing money, to make their losses huge. They are now bankrupt and the Parliamentary Enquiry into how to deal with the matter is foundering because of that earlier greed - because the Governments controlling share means they have liabilities to meet if bankcruptcy is declared.

Apart from that the PO is no longer able to deliver its service. No real enquiries are made when a service is faulty - they now write a letter of apology and send stamps (which cost them very little) as compensation

They are also allowing their customers to print postage labels and are even promoting the sale of various labels.

The PO has been cheating its customers for a long time and it and the politioians who control it should be removed from the scheme of things

But, you say - if you have followed this drivel - what has this to do with CI stamps - an awful lot!

The opportunity to make large profits was siezed upon by the Islands - or rather their politicians. They followed the UK lead - as their postal service had been run by the UK - but made it bigger. Unfortunately the administration knew nothing of running a postal service and the huge profits from mint stamps was swallowed up by increasing costs elsewher.
So the CI played the same card as the UK. The public services were made into private Companies. This did not work and problems loom large off the French coast.

In the meantime, poor advice had been given by the Crown Dependancies Dept. - the Crown Agents (who were a Gov. Agency at the time) were appointed to procure stamps etc. They were to be paid on a three level commission basis for the huge numbers of stamps ordered from Geo. Harrison and Sons.

Harrison themselves were in a poor state and had difficulty in producing the orders on time - they even had to sub-contract some work out (not something they would normally do). Their records were in a poor state and when taken over by de la Rue, these were supposed to have been passed to Postal heritage. I have enquired but no answer received.

The CI authorities have typewritten records, which are not available on line. Guernsey refused any access originally, but when the Duke of Normandy was contacted, Guernsey grudginly offered personal access to certain files - but not those I wanted to see. Jersey acted a little cleverer and sent me a heavily censored version of the right file

So I turned to the Crown Agents who had been made a private Company as well - it is part of a Group of Companies who deal with all manner of things. However they refuse to state what happened to their records, except to say that they had been permanently loaned to the british Library. When viewed the material was seen to be poor - running proofs on card with some notes, some on embossed cards, no artwork or ealy proofs and a couple of very tatty bromides for 2/- booklets - not the sort of thing an agent for the Crown would keep in the usual scheme of things. Their Requisition books were also included, however the records are very incomplete for the time in question - no dates for either order of delivery!

So the sale of mint stamps is killing the sale of such stamps.
The hangers on who act as commission agents and the philatelic Bureaux involved are all 'brass platers' who do nothing to help those who like these pretty bits of coloured paper - so expensive to buy. Finally because of the secretive nature of politicians who control matters in the first place and the agents who all want a piece, postal history will be a non starter.

There is another group who should be mentioned - the senior collectors, dealers and politicians, who formed a cartel to make a run on one of the original issue values. Then later conspired with members of the stamp Committees to purchase proffs etc. from those Cmmittee members who had been presented with copies.

All this for two sall islands with a total population of just over 100,000

If you do not care that is your perogative, but dont be suprised when stamps disapear and postal history is confined to museums

it is quite annoying sometimes when no or hardly any response comes to queries raised.
Just been having a brief look at William Newport's "Stamps and Postal History of the Channel Islands" which does seem to offer quite a lot of information.

Your point about Machins used in CI is interesting. I presume they were actually sold down there or could one only buy the values not covered by "Regionals" for the short time between issue of Machins and postal independence?

regards
James

Newports book is out of date

Machins were sold in the CI as well as the regional stamps. However because of the short time they were in use befpre the Islands got their own stamps - very few are seen on covers. Most are seen on telegrams or Customs payment receipts and are mixed - wildings, regionls and Machins
The point about it all is that these ARE BRITISH Stamps used in CI. The independent issues are stamps issued by an indepent authority - but they are as British as the rest of us. The further problem is that records are not available and all connected with the issues are corrupted - some, like the Crown Agents are as crooked as a corkscrew. Even collectors like Newport got caught with their sticky fingers in the jam pot!!!!

No further interestin hannel Islands stamps, booklets or anythingelse - oh well!!!!!!

am now hanging on to the tree by a slender thread - but havig learnt from my previous mistakes - have committed my thoughts and findings to CDs.

Since there is no interest in this in the Society and antipathy in the CISS -my executors are instructed to offermaterial to the British Museum ( postal section)

If they feel that the research is not up to the mark material will be disposed of at auction.

As members are not interested this is posted merely to let off steam - but anyone who claims to be interested in either Harrison printings or Regional issues should have taken an interest.

Farewell