I bought a whopping collection of George V material last year with thousands of Royal Cypher stamops and I have to say, even though I'm a 1d red enthusiast mainly, I found them very interesting and attractive. I kept a few unusual ones and need some money now so am curious about the stamp on the right in the attached scan. It was listed as as "N21(18) Dull Prussian Blue on toned paper" in the album and I'm wondering how I can find out whether it really is or not. It's a much flatter, duller colour than you can see from the scan and the paper does look toned to me. Any advice much appreciated. Tim

Hi Tim,

From the scan it looks like it could be the rare Dull Prussian Blue on toned paper, although it could just be the dull blue shade. All this issue with the KGV shades is really complicated and controversial, and the only way to know is to obtain a certificate issued by BPA or RPSL (but then again even they can issue different certs for the same stamp!)

Best regards,
Alexios

Ah! I suppose I need to decide how hopeful I am before shelling out for a certificate - Thanks Alexios - Tim

Tim, I have in my British Levant collection a 1922 cover from Smyrna franked with KGV 2 1/2 + 2d and all these years I was really hopeful that the 2 1/2 d was the dull prussian shade N21 (17). I took the decision and submitted it to the RPSL and came back last week with a good certificate. Perhaps you might get lucky too...

On the other hand that shade is reasonably common on Lenate overprints so they make a useful reference should anyone come accross one used in England without the overprint!

I recall writing about this in the newletters some time ago. I have a copy of the Dull Prussian Blue (shade 17) certified and a copy of the Deep Blue (shade 12) not certified, both used in Smyrna in 1921. Is it possible that the colours wee changed by climatic conditions out there or were the only stamps in this shade (or these shades) sent out to the Levant? Has anyone seen a PROVEN case of a used stamp from these rare shades postmarked outside of the Levant?

This won't help much...

Over the years, in addition to some "clean" certs for these 1920 shades, I have accumulated a mint N21(17) considered to be both "faded" by the RPS and "chemically treated" by Brandon; two mint N21(18)s, one certified by PEGB (Robson Lowe) and one by Brandon which, needless to say, don't look anything like each other - and the latter also has an RPS cert for N21(14) which is endorsed "paper toning" and "NOT the toned paper"); and another N21(17) certified by the RPS twice, one with the endorsement "faded" - the same stamp having been earlier pronounced "a rare shade neither the deep dull blue nor Prussian blue" by the BPA. Clear?

For good measure, I note SG list N21(17) used but not (15), (16) or (18). I have an RPS-certified (16) - presumably others have too?

Told you I wouldn't be much help!

David Kaiserman

Don't we live in an uncertain world! So much for the authorities on the subject; perhaps someone should introduce the various "experts" to each other and see if they can agree on the time of day. One would assume with the technology of photochromatography that it would be possible to obtain some degree of objectivity but perhaps that's just wild optimism.

photochromatography is all very well if you are looking for a "lab" value but that does not help a lot in defining shades! There was an interesting comment on the Yahoo George V discussion group mentioning the Prinz machine as being useful for detecting shades, I will have a look for it tomorrow at the Berlin stamp fair
cheers
James

I take your point but defining shades is very subjective and that is the cause of so much controversy. Perception of shades depends upon the ambient light quality as well as the individual human's vision. I'm not familiar with the Prinz machine; I wonder how it works. A colour chart can be useful (paint companies use them all the time) but the names they use for the shades vary wildly. SG has a colour chart I believe. Photochromatography is at least objecive but it is then up to some one to determine names for the different range of values the instrument may provide; we have to use the concept of a shade range since there is almost an infinite number of shades which the human eye can detect. As we know, shades may vary considerably in a single sheet and, of course, the effects of time and exposure to the air can cause changes. It will probably never be an exact science but we can try to use technology to make it a little more precise.

I think that the reason SG does not list prices for used examples of shades 15, 16 and 18 is the fact that they appear very infrequently on the market - In contrast shade 17 is not that rare.

As a matter of fact I have seen 2-3 certified used examples of the N21(16)- the other two 15 and 18 must be extremely rare used.
Anyone with a certified example of these two?

Tony,
have a look at this dealer's list as he is selling both "toned papers" (indigo and DPB - with certificates)used in GB. So, yes these rare shades were used at "home" and clearly the Levant climatic conditions have nothing to do with the shades of these stamps.
Best regards.

link to the list:
www.bbstamps.co.uk/images/BBStamps-Singles.pdf