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 Post subject: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:52 pm 
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I was browsing a dealers 'for sale' list when I came across this particular stamp SG D62 first issued 6¹¹/61. >
IMG_20220428_232847.jpg


Have you ever seen this particular printing error before, as it does not seem to appear in the SG specialised.
I have asked this because I decided to have a look at one of my own 5d's and noticed that my stamp had similar characteristics but with several additional printing flaws. >
IMG_20220428_232805.jpg


The additional markings I found
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The P of POSTAGE has a small extension like an R.
The top left of the D of DUE has a curly extension.
The left side of P of PENCE also has additional markings.
Also with similar markings between S&T

Have you checked any of your copies ?
WM.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:48 am 
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Interesting! The "joined" S & T appears on all my inverted watermark versions but not on upright watermark copies. The other bits are probably just foreign bodies on the plate, which should have been noticed but do not qualify as errors, methinks.
Best
James


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:30 am 
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Thank you for your input J U C
It would seem that not as much relevance has been paid to PD's quite the same as definitives.
The curl on the letter D in my opinion is more prominent than the tadpole flaw on the 2d Wilding and the S&T flaw should be listed as a variant as it does not occur on all the 5d values of D62, or is it me being too critical. Wilding Mad


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 10:13 am 
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I have notified Vincent Cordell at SG today with reference to the differentials found, so that if "need be" an amendment can be made in the relevant catalogue accordingly. WM


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 1:27 pm 
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I have now had a reply from Vincent Cordell the new editor at Stanley Gibbons regarding the multiple crown 5d postage due and he has supplied me with further details obtained from the postal museum that show part sheets of imperforated copies sent for approval.

His comments are as follows :-

What is interesting is that the section pictured of the 1961 sheet (first 'Crowns' printing) shows no hint of the S&T flaw, whereas the 1964 sheet (White wove paper 'Crowns' printing) shows it to some extent on all of the pictured impressions. Suggesting it is probably quite common?

Search results (postalmuseum.org)
https://catalogue.postalmuseum.org/coll ... archquery=

The museum doesn't unfortunately state what plate was used for each printing, so this is something that would need investigating.

Vince

So based on the above information the first printing on cream paper does not have the S&T flaw, but the flaw is seen throughout the whiter paper printings. WM


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 6:21 pm 
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I have details of the plates of the 5d postage due but I do not know if it helps very much.

However please find attached the details.


Attachments:
086.JPG
(1.74 MiB)
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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 8:24 pm 
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Thanks for the attachment Lennox, however I am a little perplexed regarding the date of the 4th October 1974, hadn't we gone decimal by then, plus I cannot see any specific plate numbers that you speak of.
Please enlighten me, thanks WM


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 8:54 pm 
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I have not studied the postage due issue. All I have included is the GPO record made at the time.

Three of these plates date back to at least 1946, having previously been at Somerset House.

From other records on this site the plate number was usually in the far left margin of all pre decimal issues.

Whatever the number represents in the left margin, it is the GPO way of recording the plates.

At least the number of plates is known.

It is unusual in these records not to enter the date the plates were placed into stock, i.e. were ready for use. This would imply the plates date well before 1952.

The date of 4 October 1974 is the date the plates were scrapped. It does not mean the plates were in use up to that date.

The GPO often had a clear out of obsolete plates. Since the date was entered by a handstamp and not handwritten as usual, there would have been a mass clear out on 4 October 1974.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:06 pm 
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Thank you for your explanation, I will pass the information given on to Vincent @ SG.
WM.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:27 pm 
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One further point.

If you want to know the plate numbers, then you need to visit the Postal Museum to view the registration sheets.

The images on the web site only show part of the sheet. This is certainly the case of the Wilding Castle issue. Only parts of the sheets are on the website but I have seen the full sheets. From memory I think Douglas Muir told me that was due to the size of the scanner.

You will have to arrange a special appointment as Douglas Muir will probably have to be in attendance for security purposes.

The plate numbers may not be on the sheet. This was the case of the Waterlow and De La Rue Castle issue where I obtained the plate numbers from other sources.

If the plates pre date 1952, then the flaw you refer to could be on issues from earlier reigns.

Registration sheets were also created when there was a change in the watermark, although the plates were from much earlier. At least that was the case with the Wilding Castles.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:30 pm 
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The postal museum site has already been visited to no avail.
But thanks anyway Lennox, perhaps if you are in communication with Douglas he may be able to give you an answer, as I believe there is sometimes information written on the reverse of these sheets (so I have been told).
WM


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 3:45 pm 
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The number in the left margin is the plate number.

This can be confirmed from the Postal Museum website.

Some of these plates go back to at least 1930. Sheets with a change in the watermark would be registered.

There is an image previous to the one attached which gives the other values.

The postage due pages were not transcribed in the “QEII Cylinder and Plate Data from The Postal Museum” on this website.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:17 pm 
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From what I can ascertain from this post office ledger.

IMG_20220506_163245.jpg


Is that there are five 5d PD's, three of which are ex Somerset House with the first two being Harrison and sons, but there is a problem with specific identification as to which issue the plates refer to having no issue dates to correlate, if only they'd have taken the trouble to write a few more details at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:01 pm 
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The records were created after the introduction of the earlier postage due plates.

That is why the dates of when they were placed into stock have not been entered.

It would appear the 5d plate 8/1 initially had the control number N30 and the registration sheet is dated 28 October 1930.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:16 pm 
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This ledger that you have Lennox, when did you acquire it, and from what date does it begin ?

WM


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 6:12 pm 
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I do not have the ledger. The image is from a file held at the Postal Museum.

There are around 1,250 sheets on several files and it is from these that the details of “QEII Cylinder and Plate Data from The Postal Museum” on this website are based. The postage dues are not included but are in the Postal Museum files.

The files start in 1952. Plates which were created prior to 1952 but continued in use with no planned replacement are included. Plates of King George VI stamps which continue to be printed up to late 1955 are not included as planned replacements were in progress.

The absence of the dates the postage due plates were placed into stock infers they were created before 1952. The GPO would not be concerned in searching for the dates these plates were created when the files were started in 1952.

This suggests the possibility that the flaw could be on the King George V, King Edward VIII and King George VI postage dues.


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 Post subject: Re: The 5d postage due with printing error.
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 8:12 pm 
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When you think about it Lennox the design of the postage due never really changed right from the word go, back in 1914 terminating with the no watermarked fluorescent (Chalky) papers.

The main differences of course being the change of watermarks and colour changes, therefore some of the plates could have been used on previous issues.

I see your point about earlier issues having a similar flaw.


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